Let's have a conversation

I want to make a tough post. Some of you will not like it. If you chafe at the following words, then please pray, and "examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. More about what that means and how to do it, here.

We are in post-modern times. That is "a tendency in contemporary culture characterized by a problem of objective truth ... It involves the belief that many, if not all, apparent realities are only social constructs, as they are subject to change inherent to time and place." If you have heard someone say "that may be true for you, but it isn't true for me," then you have the essence of post-modernism. The emergent church movement is a match made in hell with post-modernism in that suspicion of objective truth is central. Emergent Christians claim that biblical truth is impossible to achieve, know, understand or interpret. It is something that invites arrogance and intolerance is divisive, and prevents unity. The bible is old and 'not relevant', and is subject to be changed to conform with these times. All are buzz words stemming from the pit. Satan is the original perpetrator of "Hath God said?" when he asked Eve if not eating the fruit in the Garden was what He really meant.

As for unity: there is no such thing. Rather, there is unity. All false religions are united but Christians are not supposed to conform to the world. Jesus came to bring a sword and that sword divides. (Mt 10). It does not unite.

Now, to the meat of the post. I am increasingly impatient with the emergent church's phrase "Let's have a conversation with..." Muslims, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus. etc. They point to Paul's appeal at Mars Hill, in Acts 17:22-33. They say that Paul went to Mars Hill and talked, conversed, shared, with the idolaters there. It was all so friendly and a tea party. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Paul went in and told them they were all wrong, and introduced them to Jesus.

Now, about a conversation. I am setting this next paragraph within the context of a witnessing, Christian conversation. Secular conversation is not the issue here. The definition of conversation is "oral exchange of sentiments, observations, opinions, or ideas". The key part is exchange. It assumes that within the conversation, any Muslim, Wiccan, Hindu has an equal idea to share back. That the exchange will occur on an equal basis. It doesn't.

I was tweeting another Christian the other day and he was so happy to share about his talk with a Muslim, saying to me, "Hey, "they believe in Jesus too!" I reminded him that their version of Jesus (Isa) was a non-Resurrected Jesus and that their religion was therefore false. He (a bit haughtily) said that Paul talked with the people on Mars Hill.

This is a terrible watering down of the Gospel. The Christian frog has been sitting in water that has warmed up by incremental degrees as satan is wont to do, and so many people are hardly aware of how close they are to boiling. You know, when water boils, it heats up until 212 degrees. But if it stays at 211 degrees, it will not boil. Christians who entertain Isa are at 211 degrees and they don't even know it.

Let's make a picture analogy. If you are of the ilk that wants to share, have a conversation, and accept what the other religions have to offer, then this is what you are doing.

You sit at a table across from a Wiccan, Buddhist, or Muslim. In front of you is a plate of gold. On top of this golden plate are crackers of such a pure white, they almost hurt your eyes to look at them. They gleam. When you pick one up and offer to to the person across from you with whom you are having this conversation, the cracker almost sings as an angelic choir.

Likewise, since conversing is sharing and exchanging, the Muslim picks up a cracker. It is moldy, so moldy it has green spots on it that have actually grown hairs. They have a plate too. It is made of compressed sewage and atop this plate is a big, steaming pile of warm turds. There are maggots crawling over it. They take a filthy, dirty encrusted knife, dig into the pile of poop, and spread it on the moldy cracker. They hand it to you. Hey, it's an exchange. We are all at the same table, sharing, aren't we?

I want to be clear. Our Wiccan and Buddhist and Muslim friends are our friends. Jesus died to save them and we love them as our neighbor. They are not the enemy. The lie they have swallowed is satan's lie. He is the enemy.

A lot of Christians are eating the poop, believing that they are helping the cause of the Gospel by sharing in conversation at the same table. It isn't. Jesus doesn't need the plate of crap. What Christians need to do is share the Truth, the ONE truth, in love and humility but with certainty. Other religions and other people sharing their religions with us have nothing to share. There is Jesus, Who is the Truth, and there is every other religion, which is the lie. Period. I hope I've been clear.

Comments

  1. Hi Elizabeth,

    Great post!! You were very clear and I am in agreement with you 100%.

    We are not to yoke with unbelievers. Jesus is the only way to God, He is the bridge. There is only one God and that god is not Allah. God Creator, is Master I AM that I AM. Jehovah, Yahweh.

    It is shameful to water down the gospel. Yes we are to go into the unbelievers but not to agree with them. There is only one truth that is Jesus Christ on the cross dying for our sins and now risen from the dead seated at the right hand of the Father. The Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

    Blessings girl you rock!
    <><

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  2. AMEN. AMEN. Amen, amen, amen!!!

    Jesus said He was THE way, THE truth, THE life. He didn't entertain any other thoughts on the matter.

    Wonderful post, and I agree with you 100%. The emergent church has been on my mind recently, and it's so upsetting to me. Timely post!!

    Thank you! God bless you, Elizabeth! (And He surely has!)

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  3. Hi Elizabeth,

    I agree fully with what you said here.

    For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. (Matt 24:24)

    God bless,
    Ken

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  4. You sound a lot like Martin Luther in the preface of his book, Bondage of the Will: "So that it seems even superfluous to reply to these your arguments, which have been indeed often refuted by me; but trodden down, and trampled under foot, by the incontrovertible Book of Philip Melancthon “Concerning Theological Questions:” a book, in my judgment, worthy not only of being immortalized, but of being included in the ecclesiastical canon: in comparison of which, your Book is, in my estimation, so mean and vile, that I greatly feel for you for having defiled your most beautiful and ingenious language with such vile trash; and I feel an indignation against the matter also, that such unworthy stuff should be borne about in ornaments of eloquence so rare; which is as if rubbish, or dung, should he carried in vessels of gold and silver." (Actually, that is a 'nice' translation of what he said. The whole book, Bondage of the Will, is a wonderful read.) http://thirdmill.org/the-bondage-of-the-will-21 You are correct, Elizabeth. Heresy of any kind, at any time in history, no matter how beautiful the words/ideas are dressed up, are only the words/ideas of 'dead men walking' and are truly poisonous to the individual soul and to the Church as a whole. I would also classify it with Isaiah's comparrison of our own righteousness - filthy (menstrual) rags. 64:6

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  5. You may find this article helpful, interesting, challenging. Contending for the Faith in America: An Open Letter to North American Churches From Rev. Fletcher Matandika http://jtwministries.org/files/2011-03_Modern_Reformation-Matandika.pdf

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  6. Hello Anonymous,
    Sounding like Martn Luther...yay! That is because we are moved by the same Holy Spirit. Praise Him!

    Thank you Child of God and Emily and Ken...surely those of us who believe are eternally provoked at the dung heap that is the world today. With Jesus' name besmirched at every turn. It pains the spirit. What a glorious day when He comes and rights everything!

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  7. Wow, you are 100.0% right: the Muslims (and other believers in wrong religions) are not the enemy. The lie they have swallowed is satan's lie. He is the enemy.

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  8. There are people in the world who have never had a good clean glass of water and after a rough day in the desert/ jungle/ city, I am sure that whatever they have had is refreshing. But after having just one drink of pure clean water that would change, what had previously satisfied would no longer be the same. This is the same with having been joined together with Christ, those things that used to satisfy no longer are the same. Oh sure you can go back there but it is not the same, is it? Nothing can satisfy the longing soul like Jesus. The one whom God sent to be the Lamb of God that was slain for the sins of the world.

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  9. Thank God for the message(s) this blog teaches!!!!!!!

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  10. Elizabeth, can you please please help me to know what to do if I have serious fear about sharing my faith? I feel like I'm too aware of people my age that completely scoff at any notion of christ and are proud atheists and agnostics....how do I minister to these people? How do I get the guts to share christ with people I come across? I sometimes have to ignore the thoughts in my mind of all the people whose souls will forever burn in the lake of fire because when I think of all that don't give a crap or just laugh at the notion of ever believing in Jesus, I almost want to cry. All I have the guts to do is cry out to God to have mercy on them like He had on me, to send them the earthquake He sent to me that opened my eyes.. Please help...Thank you so much

    - Debbie

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  11. Debbie-
    I know exactly where you're coming from. I feel the same. I found this website to have a lot of practical information to help answer the questions you have
    http://www.wayofthemaster.com/

    As for the emotional part, pray. Pray ceaselessly, the Holy Spirit is our HELPER. He will give you courage, peace, boldness. He will give you strength to endure the feelings of hopelessness on behalf of the hopeless.

    And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence, while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness. Acts 4:29-31

    I will pray that when YOU pray, the house will shake with the strength of the Holy Spirit as it did on that day in Acts!

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  12. Hi Elizabeth,

    May the peace of the Lord be with you and with other readers. I've been reading your blog for at least a couple of years now and I have been blessed by it. I pray that God continues to bless you and help you keep others focused on the times in which we live.

    I write in reply to this post for a number of reasons. I'll start with a bit of back story and hopefully it'll tie in.

    A few years ago, I had a 'Holy Spirit' experience which I won't go into in much detail, largely because some of these things I am still not able to relate properly in words. Suffice to say that the spiritual activity on the night in question began when I was clearly presented with two paths, and when I saw clearly the choice, and I chose to follow the way of God and good. I'd answered altar calls before, and accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Saviour and all such but only then, that night, when I chose my path, did I feel a weight off my shoulder. Indeed, I was struck by it because I didn’t know I had any weight!! At the same time it was as if the greatest fan or turbine was turned on in front of me because a great big wind started blowing into my belly and for the next three all sorts happened. Indeed life has never been the same. That particular night however ended with me being led to a Christian lady's house, where while she and others sang hymns and waited for their pastor to arrive, I was caught up in seeing visions, in wonders and marvel, and occasionally words would burst forth from my mouth for one of the women present, who in turn would begin a crying of her own. Anyway, at a point in all of this, I was overwhelmed with the praise of God and it seemed that I was praising God in every language which I had ever heard. I can only leave it to you to imagine the surprise to me and the others when 'Allahu akhbar' also burst forth from my lips!! At this point I was a mere bystander, and what was coming out from my mouth was coming out regardless of me trying to shut myself up. Naturally, the women were also surprised, and where five minutes ago I had the 'Holy Spirit' and was obviously anointed of the Lord, now I was possessed of a lunatick spirit and the hymns changed to praying for my salvation and whatnot. I thank God for the pastor, who, the next day, though confused by it as I was, advised me to buy a Quran and fast and pray before reading it, for maybe God was trying to show me something. By the third day, though I begged against it, the Spirit gradually left me and while I tried to go back to the life I knew, I could not deny what had happened.

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  13. Thank you for sharing that experience you had. I'm sure that what happened could not be denied. Whether you know it it was from God or from satan remains the question.

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  14. Anonymous, I see that you have continued with a couple more long comments about your testimony and about the 'spiritual truths' contained in the Koran and that 'all believers are true, Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc'. You say that you "also saw that the Quran, as with all things spiritual is greatly misunderstood by a great many." I am not going to publish your comments.

    The Koran has NOTHING to bring to the table for conversation nor does any Muslim have knowledge of the truth to share. Point blank. The only truth is in the 66 books of the Holy Bible and a person either believes that or they have bought the lie. You bought the lie.

    If you have been reading my blog for a couple of years now but still believe that the Koran or any other book than the bible contains any truth whatsoever, then you have missed the point of my blog, which is the bible is the only barometer of truth. I see that you are misguided by some kind of spirit that you entertain and your eyes have been blinded. I am so sorry!!! Please please please pray to the Spirit, the REAL Holy Spirit for forgiveness of your sins. Your pastor did you a great disservice giving you a koran and saying that maybe God was trying to show you something. No, satan was trying to show you something. And he did, and you believed the lie.

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  15. Elizabeth, in my experience people are more open to challenge within the context of relationship. I agree that relativism is a blind alley, but is kicking non-Christians in the teeth with the truth actually going to save any of them? If you're interested in more than church boundary maintenance, if you're interested in actually saving the lost, them conversation has to come in at some point.

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  16. Matt, I'm not saying don't talk with the lost. I'm speaking of the Emergent practice of sitting at a table with the lost and accepting that they have spiritual truth to share within the confines of an equal conversation.

    The 'church' has one function: preach, teach, and defend the Truth. Accepting that other religious people may have something equally as valuable to share defeats the purpose of the church

    Christians should share the truth in love. That truth divides. It IS a kick in the teeth to learn that we're sinners and all our good works are as trash to Jesus. Propositional truth tends to end conversation rather than further it, we all know that. Therefore Emergents focus more on 'conversation' than Truth- and many are lost as a result.

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